SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hey all, thanks for keeping this thread alive. I've been busy on my end with lawyering up, taking care of my kids (and myself), and trying to get some work done. I'll try to respond to some things here, since you've all been so kind:

@Letmebefrank: About the kids, I'm all about telling them the truth. Mom found a new boyfriend.

@Bigger: Totally agree that she's chosen not to do the work to break contact with her AP AND the killer part to me is that she knows how much that pains me. Like, she apologizes when she sees me in the depths of it (regardless of how cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent I try to be, sometimes we slip up), but she won't engage with the fact that she's continuing to abuse me by maintaining contact.

Also, FWIW, everything we have is legally joint property at this point.

@DRSOOLERS: I think what you're saying is that NC with the AP should be offered, not demanded, and I wholeheartedly agree.

@NukeZombie: Yes, my wife knows what's coming wrt the kids. They will be heartbroken to learn of our separation, and they will quickly understand the 'why', as I have no intention of lying to them. It definitely breaks her to be the villain, but her identity as a hot-shot, up-and-coming, steward of a cutting-edge biotech startup values more to her. Her ambition outweighs anything else right now, damn the consequences. #HappyToBeGettingOut

And FWIW, although me and the kids are American citizens, we have a great life here, and I'm committed to staying put till they reach maturity.

@Bigger: I have no doubt that she's discussed the impending divorce with her co-founder AP. And I appreciate your likening this to an amputation. As my first (and hopefully only) divorce, I'm figuring this out on the fly.

@Butforthegrace: Truly excellent summary up to now. And also very astute observations. Yes, both wife and AP have known each other for some time and both are high achievers professionally with nice CVs and any number of accomplishments. He's the idea guy with the patents, she's the one turning this into a company. (FWIW, there's a third, more minor co-founder in this venture.) Though you're probably right that my wife was feening, I refuse to play the game of "I should have known". Next time I'll do more diligence though...

So yes, she's been lying profusely for some time. And there's no doubt those lies continue. Maybe I'm naive though, but I doubt she's managed to shelter/shield herself from financial fallout yet. She seems to be an emotional wreck but who knows really. Monday I have a call scheduled with the legal team, and we'll see what they have to say.

And, though her tech is interesting enough, I'd bet that the yacht in Monaco is as likely as me, I dunno, winning the World Cup and marrying into Spanish royalty.

Excellent responses thus far.

My ExWW also prioritized our marriage below her career, enabling friends, and reputation, respectively. I tried to be accommodating, but her unwillingness to make the necessary, and even the not so necessary sacrifices, ultimately killed our "reconciliation". Trust rebuilding requires action-especially proaction, and can’t just be reactive, or worse, minimalistic. It takes an impressive show of remorse and determination to eclipse the profound trauma of betrayal and loss of trust.

If she doesn’t intuitively understand this, she’s not empathizing with you. If she’s unwilling to do this, she doesn’t have the requisite motivation to move those mountains and endure and nurture reconciliation. Empathy and proper motivation are fundamental to an authentic reconciliation.

If her career and ambitions were so important to her, she wouldn’t have jeopardized all that with an affair unless…she was willing to take that risk counting on you to acquiesce, or willing to jettison the marriage if you would not.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 9:20 PM, Friday, August 14th]

Though you're probably right that my wife was feening, I refuse to play the game of "I should have known". wink Next time I'll do more diligence though...

I am romantic enough at heart to believe that if one's heart guides one to decide to marry, at that point it's okay to let one's guard down. Exhale.

The reality is that each of us changes and morphs over time. Couples who remain faithfully married recognize this and cyclically reinvest in and reinvent the marriage.

Here, your WW allowed a critical mass of her emotional energy to be directed away from the marriage and into the startup and, by connection, her co-founder. That's a slippery slope for the reasons that you now know. Still, there's nothing to be gained by flagellating yourself with a "shoulda/woulda/coulda" line of thought. She made shyte choices. Whether that was because she's a shyte human at heart, or a good wife who simply lost her way, is irrelevant.

I don't think you need to change your diligence with respect to a next partner assuming there is one. Your WW chose "not you" and "not this marriage" because that's what she wanted to choose, and she did it secretly behind your back without being man enough to walk away because she wanted to. Millions of people remain faithfully married, with highly immersive careers, and never make those choices.

When that happened to me, the adage I guided myself with was: "Fuck me once, shame on you. Fuck me twice, shame on me." After our divorce, my WW was in my life for about another 10 years because we were co-parenting her son, who was functionally my stepson (I never legally adopted him). At some point after I had spent a couple of years sowing my wild oats in a rather huge way, she began to hint at the idea of us giving it another go. "I'd never give somebody a chance to do that to me twice."

Your wife isn’t just choosing him and her career now. She chose them for 9 months without you knowing. She betrayed you and the kids for 9 months with no remorse. When I caught my wife she immediately went into family and marriage saving mode. She went no contact the next day and immediately quit the job where they met otherwise we’d be divorced right now. Not the same as your wife being CEO I guess but the point is it’s up to your wife to show you she is worthy of reconciliation and from what you’ve described she just isn’t. Sorry you are here.

I commend you Soon2B for putting your foot down and telling your wife that you'd have to leave for your own sanity.

I truly hope things work out well for your and your kids. I'm sorry that you're going through this.

Soon2B:

It's been a couple of weeks, any update? Has she changed her stance at all?

Hey NukeZombie (and friends), thanks for checking in. I'd thought about posting earlier as events were unfolding, but even in this anonymous forum I found it hard to admit things that may be perceived as missteps and that my resolve was wavering. But let's begin, so maybe others can gain some insight from my journey so far.

Last we left it, we had 'officially' decided to separate (though I have to say that those words were never spoken), with her having communicated that to at least one of her friends. Well, I'll go ahead and reveal that we live in Spain, where everything basically shuts down in August. Courts are closed and lots of attorneys also take time off, so I've been forced to effectively sit on my hands for a few weeks. (Though I've spent the time gathering necessary documents including financial information and what I could about my wife's company.)

But also during this time, I started to step back from the brink. Rationally, I know I need to get out of this marriage. But emotionally, things are complicated given the children, long shared history, me living abroad ...

Well, my WW and I went on a short getaway without the kids to deep dive into our current situation and here's the summary of what came out:

• I pressed her to see if she had any intention to leave the company and, I think, for the first time she told me no. She sees herself working there for at least the next 3–4 years. Alongside AP, of course. #Gutted

• She (finally) offered me her phone and showed me how to access the messages she was sharing with AP. Little did she realize that I'd been reading those messages since D-day, so I knew what she was offering had been sterilized of all incriminating info. She also began, for a short time, telling me in advance when she'd need to contact him. Though that, of course, is too burdensome and fell apart quickly...

• She opened up about the 'depth' of their EA. How hard it was for her to break it off. How she needed to let him down easy because she wants/needs to retain that relationship for 'work'. FWIW, I told her in the moment that she spared his and her own feelings at an enormous cost to me and our relationship.

And so, we came back from our trip and back to the kids feeling somewhat closer -- both physically and emotionally -- but at the same time, she's finally vocalized what I've known since the beginning: that she's going to choose her career over me and my healing, and therefore, our relationship.

But hey, I was a teensy bit hopeful that her efforts at transparency might mean that this ship was turning around. Her WhatsApp was remarkably professional (though I realize that messages can be deleted without retaining any notifications). However, her email revealed that she started receiving regular messages from AP via LinkedIn. Messages that didn't exist when I logged into her account. {sigh}

Just this past Sunday night, we had just got back from a weekend trip with the kids, and I finally caught one of their transactions. Her recounting our family weekend to AP as if they were friends. And a lovely message that sadly I couldn't get a screengrab of before she deleted it, but said something to the effect of, "I don't forget you for a single minute of the day".

Well, she just happened to walk in the room as I was closing her laptop and I told her I'd read her messages and I said the words that I'd been stewing over for weeks. I want a divorce. She claims she doesn't want to keep hurting me, but also admits that she can't give me what I need with regards to NC. (BIG SHOUTOUT to all who participated in this thread on NC, btw: https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/topics/667319/requiring-nc/)

She's asking me to consider separation over divorce because she's not ready for the finality of divorce. But she's willing to go along with whatever I decide. I'll be speaking with my attorneys in the next day or two to organize a plan, but to everyone who was concerned about her shielding assets and protecting her company, I genuinely believe that she's been blindsided. I don't know if it's a cake-eater's fog, or she just didn't take me seriously all these weeks, but it doesn't seem like she's prepared at all for what's to come.

I think your message to yourself is that she is starting a brand new life without you. I feel terrible writing that but it needs being said. It gives you the strength to divide then from now and move on.
I hope you are able to eat and sleep well enough to stay healthy. This kind of dragged out horror does harm to your body.

Soon2B, I don’t see any missteps. But you can always post here - take the advice you like and leave the rest.

You started this thread with the correct position that if she continues to work with the AP, then you have to assume her A is continuing.

Now you know that assumption was correct. Sorry for being blunt, but she’s not choosing her career, she’s choosing AP.

I don’t see what you gain by agreeing to separate. I think if she’s ever going to snap out of it, getting smacked in the face with divorce papers is the thing to do it.

As for her being blindsided, I believe it. Most of these affairs are based on fantasy. Waywards get so caught up in these things as to be delusional. She’s surprised because she’s been living in a world she created in her mind and divorce was never contemplated in it. I would continue to take the bat of reality to her piñata of fantasy. Maybe she’ll figure it out.

Can you clarify one issue: Is the affair an emotional affair or a sexual affair? Do you know with certainty that they have consummated the affair (as in had physical contact).

In your country what is the legal difference between separation and/or divorce? What is the legal effect? In many places a period of separation is required to divorce – does that impact anything?
Why does she want separation rather than divorce? I get the finality, but if you were to ask her then does she still have some hope for the marriage? Does she think that you would be willing to resume a marriage after she has explored the future of her relationship with OM?

Why does she want separation rather than divorce?

I’ll go out on a Sequoia sized limb and posit she wants OP as her fallback in case the startup and/or relationship with AP fails. Soon2B, I hope you value yourself more than being 3rd place, at best, in your wife’s life ultimate priorities, where AP is #1, and startup is #2.

True.
Could also be that she needs time to better separate the startup from marital assets. Therefore I ask about the legal difference between the two. Maybe an official separation can guarantee OP his share.
But it could also be that so far this is an EA (therefore my question) and we know that often the WS does not see the EA as a real "affair".

I think she is asking for the separation to give her and her AP time to get a game plan in place to protect the company's financial assets. I don't know how the laws work in Spain but here in the US just because you are separated doesn't mean you can start the process to request financial disclosure. But if you have started the divorce process you request full financial disclosure.

I admire your strength and determination to stay the course and do what is best for you and the children. Hopefully the divorce laws in Spain give you the necessary tools to get what you deserve. It would be awesome if she was ordered to pay palimony and child support and you got primary custody!

It seems like the majority of people who have affairs, and are married with children, give ZERO consideration to the fact that if a divorce happens the children are going to lose time with both parents. How can anyone be any more selfish?

I genuinely believe that she's been blindsided. I don't know if it's a cake-eater's fog, or she just didn't take me seriously all these weeks, but it doesn't seem like she's prepared at all for what's to come.

Continue to press this advantage Soon2B. You need legal guidance from a licensed Spanish family attorney. Start setting up consultations with the 3 highest rated local attorneys. Pick the one that you feel most comfortable with and start the process. Being unfamiliar with Spanish law and legal process, you need to protect your family and financial situation. Do not give her time to start to plan her exit with her AP on her schedule. I would bet a significant sum that they've already started to plan for the future- both for their company and for their relationship. Disrupt that fast. Make her react to you and not you reacting to her and her AP's plans.

I don’t really see your update as any kind of wavering. You were doing your best to get a solid read on where she’s at. 2x4s are reserved for lapdog and doormat behavior, neither of which you’re exhibiting.

So I've already spoken with two highly rated family attorneys here and the earliest I could get in with the third is next week. My understanding is that the only difference between a 'separation' and 'divorce' here is that the separation is reversible -- we could/would still divide up our marital assets, though we'd still technically be married and unable to remarry till divorced. My feeling is that she still has hope for the marriage, and offered up the idea that she has a lot of things still to work on/through. What that means regarding her and her AP is anyone's guess, though given we'd still be married if separated, any unfaithful activity would still be an affair.

@Bigger, this was both a PA and (apparently an ongoing) EA, and no, I don't think she sees the EA as being an 'affair'.

@WB1340, according to the legal advice I've received so far, divorce laws here could be pretty generous to me. There's no need to separate before divorce and all divorces are no fault. However, up till about 15 years ago, full custody was almost always awarded to the mother, regardless of the circumstances. Things have changed quite a bit since then, but there are still some old timey judges who may disfavor giving custody to the father...

Soon2B, I think that her request to not divorce is grabbing for safety and control. Until now, she was in total control of the outcome and could make unilateral decisions regarding her and your life, it's more comfortable then to have decisions made for you, especially if she doesn't know where her relationship with AP will go. Divorce will also take away the intensity of taboo Romeo & Juliet type love affair.

I don't think it makes any sense to make it a separation if you are not going to work on yourself and your relationship and you are not going to work on it, because her affair is in full swing. You would feel like the world's biggest fool sitting and waiting for her while she is living the high of her life with her lover and her venture. While the divorce is proceeding, she can always change her mind. Hell, she can propose to you afterwards, though I highly doubt that on the other side of it you will want to have anything to do with her.

You are allowed to have hope, but don't allow deception, disrespect and rejection rule your life. Right now she definitely is not your wife, so why should she be allowed to pretend to be your wife? Why should you be some strawman husband figure? Why should the documents bear false witness about the state of your relationship? Take care of yourself.

[This message edited by Itiswhatitis000 at 9:32 PM, Tuesday, September 1st]

So, if she wants to separate how does she see that going about? Do you move out and she stays in the house with the kids while playing high level executive? Or is she willing to move out and you stay in the house with the kids with her getting some sort of visitation?

You need to realize that the person willing to end the relationship has significant leverage and power.

I would encourage her to move out. Tell her she has the boyfriend's place to move to, it's already set up. (I'm assuming the AP lives in the same locale, or is it a long distance relationship?) Why should you move out? You didn't do anything wrong. Tell her you're willing to help her pack and to drive her over to her boyfriend's house with her stuff. In front of your WW, grab you phone and call up the AP. You have his number, right? Tell him you're bringing your wife to his place this Saturday with all her stuff. She's his problem now and you don't want your kids around a homewrecker. Then hang up, don't give him time to reply. Expect a flurry of messages/calls to go back and forth between him and your WW. I bet he's enjoying NSA sex with your wife without the day-to-day burdens of life. Make it real for the AP- a sudden live-in girlfriend with all that entails. Sharing space, accounting for his coming and goings to her, meal planning, dirty laundry, etc. All the mundane events that go with living with someone. It either happens and you know for sure divorce is the only option, or one of them refuses which just might raise questions in the other's eyes about how serious their relationship really is. Either way it's according to your actions and timeline and not your wife's. No more pick me dance.