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Wayward Side :
Discussing thought

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 Bulcy (original poster member #74034) posted at 10:00 PM on Wednesday, April 23rd, 2025

Hi,

Something I am struggling with is discussing my thoughts.

For many years I fought against any talk of infidelity, I lied, gas lit, abused, shouted, screamed, intimidated....the list goes on. Many of you know my past and the continued failure to work on saving myself and my marriage. I had to hit my lowest points before I started to make changes, and even then I was a struggle for my BS.

I am looking into my "whys" and deep diving into the justifications I told myself and thrust upon my BS. So may areas of our life were impacted by my infidelity and subsequent refusal to make any changes. I am working on empathy and a caring attitude to discussions about me, my past and my future. Even now though, I keep my thought to myself until such time as I think I have an answer.......Clearly there are problems to this way of thinking.

1) BS has no idea what I am doing or thinking

2) I am a WS and therefore my thoughts cannot be trusted fully

3) My own bullshit detector is tuned to others, but I am poor at self bullshit analysis

4) Past uncovering of bullshit by BS lead to defensive behaviour

5) I only have my perspective

6) It is not being the "open" side of open and honest.

There are more, but I think you get my point.

Even taking more recent conversations, post full disclosure, BS and I have had great conversations where we rationally discuss my behaviours and thought and these lead to constructive and even emotionally mature talks.

I post this to ask WS and BS if this sounds similar and what was done to overcome it and how did this make you feel? I think I am not alone in this and this is certainly something I am working on. Wayward head thinks that if I discuss a thought and it turns out to be inaccurate 9not a lie, but a dumb bit of thinking, then this will lead to more arguments (not true as rational brain knows full well)

I'm not after excuses, more reassurance that I'm not the only dumbass out there. Also so I can help to push wayward brain further away. I often delude myself I am a lot further down the road to recovery than I actually am. Thoughts are important to discuss, I know this and understand this. I now need to ensure I act on this knowledge.

Hopefully this makes sense

[This message edited by Bulcy at 10:01 PM, Wednesday, April 23rd]

WH (50's)

Multiple sexual, emotional and online affairs. Financial infidelity and emotional abuse. Physical abuse and intimidation.

D-days 2003, 2017, multiple d-days and TT through 2018 to 2023. 28 years of destructive and health damaging choice

posts: 378   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8867072
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 5:37 PM on Thursday, April 24th, 2025

You ask for WS and BS responses, but there's a STOP sign on this thread. Would you like it removed?

posts: 10034   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8867116
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 Bulcy (original poster member #74034) posted at 8:34 PM on Thursday, April 24th, 2025

If you could please.

Thank you

WH (50's)

Multiple sexual, emotional and online affairs. Financial infidelity and emotional abuse. Physical abuse and intimidation.

D-days 2003, 2017, multiple d-days and TT through 2018 to 2023. 28 years of destructive and health damaging choice

posts: 378   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2020   ·   location: UK
id 8867125
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Pippin ( member #66219) posted at 10:44 PM on Thursday, April 24th, 2025

Hm. I'm not sure I have a great response but I'll offer something that might be in the ballpark?

It is only recently that I'd say I am really in touch with my thoughts and feelings. Before, I would obviously have thoughts and feelings, but I wouldn't ponder and explore them, make sure they were based on truth instead of projection, and often I would go straight to action without really making sure it had a solid foundation. I spent LONG periods of time walking my dog, alone in a forest, trying to get in touch with my thoughts and feelings. I used to carry around an emotions wheel to help identify them. And I allowed myself pauses when I needed time. So it might be legitimate for you to take the time you need to really get in touch with what is going on inside of yourself, as long as you are not using that time to hope the conversation just goes away.

My husband is also working on this. He is also really not in touch with his thoughts and feelings sometimes. The other day he came home from work and we took the dog for a walk, and at the end, I commented that he seemed a little contemplative, a little distant. He said he was fine. About an hour later, he found me reading in the bedroom and basically criticized and scolded me for something. It was an area of our relationship that we are working on, and I had asked him if it was OK if I background process for a bit while other things in my life are busy, and he had said it's totally fine. That night he said he had been waiting so long for these answers, how could I go about being busy when there are such important things waiting, and so on. I felt totally blindsided. I walked around confused and unhappy for an hour, and then he found me again and said he was worried he had screwed something up at work, people would be angry at him, he would get in trouble, etc (btw, this happens about once a quarter and he has never actually screwed anything up, and is in fact given tremendous responsibility because he is smart, ethical, and detail oriented but he is excessively anxious about these things). After he told me this, I said, that's understandable, but you just chastised me for not working on our relationship. what's going on? He BURST into tears (not so normal for him). In that moment he realized that his lack of self-awareness and avoidance of feeling the fear and shame of his work problem meant that he took it out on me. So that's a long way of saying, lots of people are working on these things. Even people who are not waywards.

My process is this (which I offered to my husband and he finds helpful). I'll feel an emotion. Even comfortable ones, like happiness. I will check the belief that the emotion is based on. I might be happy because things are going my way, my kid got into a prestigious college. I'm tempted to take action - tell all the other mommies and especially that one who is a frenemy. I'll check to see if that's a sturdy foundation. Oops! Happiness that your kid got into a prestigious college is NOT a sturdy foundation. Happiness that your kids got into a college that is a good fit and will help them in the next part of their life IS a sturdy foundation. So I refrain from saying to people my son got into prestigious college and instead say my son is going to this college that is perfect for him (in this case, not the prestigious college he got into and is rejecting in favor of the other one. I bite my tongue not mentioning the other one).

Here's another example. I'll be angry that my boss said something sharp at me in front of people. I'll feel that anger. What belief is it based on? The boss is trying to put me in my place and take me down a notch. Is that valid? In one of my jobs, it was valid. I asked a couple of colleagues who I trust, with an open mind. They shared (gently) that I was not being a team player. The best response was to check myself, apologize, become a team player. In another job, it was not valid. The boss often gave himself permission to be rude. I checked with others (not gossiping) In that case, the action was to make sure my anger had become peaceful, that I had the best intentions for the boss, and to give him feedback.

Does that all make sense? Feel the emotion, check the underlying belief, perhaps check with others, settle the emotion, do the action. It takes time to practice.

[This message edited by Pippin at 10:47 PM, Thursday, April 24th]

Him: Shadowfax1

Reconciled for 6 years

Dona nobis pacem

posts: 1013   ·   registered: Sep. 18th, 2018
id 8867134
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 4:04 PM on Friday, April 25th, 2025

Great response Pippin, and this has been my experience as well. I needed that framing you just gave to even know how to answer this question.

I think it IS a lot of people. I am genX, raised by boomers. By and large that is. Generation who a large majority didn’t learn to deal with feelings as they were raised by the silent generation. I think I did better teaching our kids but no where near as good s they do with their kids. Emotional intelligence can be taught or modeled but many of us never experienced that.

Self awareness is the main obstacle we have and for ws who re often avoidant, sometimes we are already so full of shame and insecurity it’s difficult for us to want to take a look at ourselves for fear of what we might find.

This is why sometimes we have to spend some time healing before we can start tackling more. And deep down I think healing is a combination of learning to love ourselves and then moving on to changing the things that don’t serve us. But we often do not know that’s the order of operations and we flail longer as a result. Add to that even if we do know the goal is to learn to love ourselves, how does one even begin to do that? Sometimes it starts with having compassion with ourselves which in itself is a tall order.

Remind yourself when you know better you do better. Yes, we knew what we did was wrong but we didn’t know why it was so compelling.

My advice to the flailing is to start being mindful and intentional. Because when you do that often you will start making better decisions, and when you make better decisions you start feeling better about yourself. The momentum starts. The momentum stops as we are reminded of who we have been. That’s why it’s important to try and live more in the present. To focus on what we can control, and keep tending to what is currently happening. We can’t control our past or our future and when you remind yourself to let those things slip away things start to get more manageable.

Then, as things get more manageable you can start doing other things, because you are no longer paralyzed by the shame of the past. You have blonde recent history to point at that you are proud of and as the future becomes a question you start fortifying your confidence to handle it because you are now present and at the wheel rather than just going through the motions of your days.

It sounds like you have some pride in your progress but still want to criticize how long it’s taken. Guess what? It’s taken me 7 years of being mindful and sometimes I am still bad at what I preach. However, it doesn’t have to be perfect.

Progress over perfection.

But that presence starts morphing over time into a deep knowing of yourself. It’s no longer all bad or all good. That was my problem before, I focused on the bad. That critical voice in my head that has been there as long as I could remember no longer exists anywhere near as strong. Now I just say "okay I learned something, I will do it better next time. Everyone has to start somewhere."

It’s okay to let your understanding evolve. I think you can say "I used to think this, but I have spent a lot of time reflecting and I see this over here might have been a larger factor"

When you spend so much time bottling everything up, nothing ever gets deeply examined. We are unable to do that fully without writing our thoughts in a journal, or talking about them here, or talking live to someone we trust.

I think you did therapy? If not, perhaps these are things you could bring to therapy. A lot of therapy is just self examination. They aren’t fixing you, they are helping you become aware so that when you reach these little crossroads where it comes up you can actively make a difference choice. It also helps you realize that some of the narratives you tell yourself aren’t really true and we can choose a more helpful narrative.

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 8058   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8867231
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